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End/modify NG3? Quickly begin NG4 with better rules? VOTE

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wat do?

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kobo1d

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Please critique my work in progress based on Syrnn's adaptation of NG2. I am still hoping to fuse in some of minotaur's suggestions.

Nation Game 4:

Unless otherwise specified, all rules implemented in NG2 are in effect! Consider this an amendment rather than a brand new rules set! Any changes are noted in red text.

In summation, the holdovers from NG2 are that: A nation is given four military actions during the course of a 24-hour turn, to begin every day at 12:00pm EST (GMT -5). The actions are divided into two varieties: colonization and conquest. Conquest is to be further described in "Warfare", below.

Warfare:
1a. You must publicly declare war a turn before rolling any conquest dice, stating both a reason for the war and terms of surrender on part of the defending nation. Both of these are required. (Your reasoning or terms may be ridiculous, but you still need to give some.)
1b. The attacker in a war get a 25% bonus to their attack rolls on the first turn of dice rolling. This bonus is lost if the two nations were previously in a war within the last 5 turns.
2. Defender may either accept attacker's terms or go to war.
3a. Attackers then declare an adjacent territory for each action being spent on conquest, and roll any amount of dice, up to the amount of territories of their nation. The total is then multiplied by resource modifiers (if any). Should an attacker be in a war with multiple nations, it must divide their attack/defense dice as well as resources between each war front.
3b. Any player wishing to provide allied support for the attacker must roll their own dice for the attack, up to a maximum of 1/10th the amount of territories of their nation (rounded UP). Should the ally be in a war with multiple nations/providing aid to multiple nations, it must divide their attack/defense dice as well.
3c. Defender then declares a territory for each attack he is defending against, then rolls any amount of dice, up to the amount of territories of their nation. The total is then multiplied by resource modifiers (if any).
3d. Any player wishing to provide allied support for the defended must roll their own dice for the defense, up to a maximum of 1/10th the amount of territories of their nation (rounded UP). Should the ally be in a war with multiple nations/providing aid to multiple nations, it must divide their attack/defense dice as well.
3e. Territories gained through war cannot be added to your total until the war is over.
4. If attacker wins, he gains attacked territory. If defender wins, he gains one of his territories back, or, if he still owns them all, gains one of the attacker's territories. The first turn of the war, an attacker may not lose territories for failed war attempts, due to the need to establish the fighting line on part of the defender.
5. War ends when the two nations come to a formal agreement, one nation gains all of the other nation's land, or when either party gives in to terms set by the other.

There will be scattered throughout the map clusters of resources in adjacent territories. Each resource of a type is capable of providing a +.1x multiplier to a single war front. These may be traded to adjacent nations passively by agreement between two nations for whatever terms agreed between them, often for resources, but for other services or territory as well. Trade is considered to be ongoing unless a limit of turns is set in place by the trade agreement, and requires only a single one of the agreeing nations to state intention to end the trade, and that very turn, the resources traded are considered unavailable to the other players as per their agreements. Note: In the event of a series of trades requiring a continued chain of trade between multiple players (such as trading a resource received from another player), it is possible to break the chain of trade between all players by cutting off the resource from the original source.

Additional Actions:
Embargo/Blockade: A nation may interdict a trade between two other parties with an expenditure of actions. For each action used, you may deny a player access to a single resource received through trade (this will also deny the third party with whatever they were receiving in return for that resource, likely another resource). This action may only be used when it geographically makes sense (has to be believable)

Trade Land: Swap territories with one other nation. If the difference in the trade is greater than 1, one extra action must be spent by both sides for each additional territory. So if Player A is trading 4 territories and Player B is trading 3, it costs one action. But if Player A is trading 5 territories, both players spend two actions. If Player A is trading 6 territories, both players spend three actions. Player A may not trade 8 territories, as that would cost 5 actions. At the end of a war, land may be traded between both combatants at no cost, according to the agreements of each party.

Colonization: Colonization is a simple six-sided dice roll of 4 or better to gain a new adjacent territory.
Expansion: Costs 3 Actions: Gain one territory of your choosing.

Recommended additional rules:

-Overseas colonization is restricted to a distance set in pixels depending on the map, typically a distance being the mean average length or width (whichever is greater) of the provinces on the map, or whatever is reasonable. Overseas expansion beyond this distance is strictly prohibited.
-A third action apart from Colonization or Conquest called Taxes or Tithes, in which a player collects 1 gold from every territory they own, as well as 3 from any possessed capitols. This passive resource benefits no bonus, but may be traded to denote a "debt" to another player for resources or other terms, such as military aid for a number of turns and so on.

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I like every part of it but the resources.
Those didn't stimulate trade last game, really. Either implement something different or do away with them!
What would I suggest? ... Well, first you'd need something that benefits a little nation as much as a big nation. And you'd also need something that merits trading.

I say you sprinkle around the map a 'set' of resources - and give a flat bonus to # of armies if a player controls an entire set (think risk, or maybe monopoly). It will, at the very least, get players talking about trading part of a set back and forward.

Also, if players get 1 army per territory, perhaps there should be a way to streamline # of dice rolled. Dunno exactly how, but rolling 20 dice might become a problem! Very Happy

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Chinese R-3 wrote:Also, if players get 1 army per territory, perhaps there should be a way to streamline # of dice rolled. Dunno exactly how, but rolling 20 dice might become a problem! Very Happy
>rolling 20 dice might become a problem
>didn't know NG2 ended with everyone rolling 50-80 dice, my country being over 180 territories, the enemy being over 230; it almost ended with those dice being rolled
>totally new here

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kobo1d

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I think part of the problem regarding resources last game was that it was too easy to get them all without trade, and that the game itself had such a small window of peace to rp and develop trading relationships to begin with.

Nation Game 4:

Unless otherwise specified, all rules implemented in NG2 are in effect! Consider this an amendment rather than a brand new rules set!

Play (Turns)

1. A nation is given four military actions during the course of a 24-hour turn, to begin every day at 12:00am EST (GMT -5).
2. There are 2 IC threads, a turn thread and a diplomacy thread. Each nation makes exactly 1 post to the turn thread, listing the actions taken that turn, and rolls any dice required by their actions. All of your turn (all actions) is taken at once.
3. Nations may post as many times as they like in the diplomacy thread, and are encouraged to RP heavily there.

Nation Creation/Reformation/Dissolution

To create a nation, choose a name and up to 8 unoccupied regions and make a post in the turn thread. The turn after a nation joins, it may begin taking actions.

Eliminated Nations - A player that has lost his nation may either start a new nation with 4 unoccupied regions, or play a rebel front.
Rebel Front - A rebel front has no regions, no resources, and 2 military dice. The only actions it may take is to attack, or the trade land action. Like any nation, a rebel front may receive support dice from allies. If a rebel front wins territory in an attack or is given territory by another nation, it acts as a regular nation from that point on.

Dissolving Nations - If a player does not roll any dice required of them in defense by the end of a turn, they are assumed to have rolled all 3's. If a player is inactive for 4 days, they are dissolved, and their territories are considered unclaimed. Fluffwise, they are remnants of the previous nation in anarchy or decay. If a player returns from a hiatus and some of their land still remains unclaimed, they may simply post to take a turn again to regain the territory that hasn't been claimed.

Warfare:
1a. You must publicly declare war a turn before rolling any conquest dice, stating both a reason for the war and terms of surrender on part of the defending nation. Both of these are required. (Your reasoning or terms may be ridiculous, but you still need to give some.)
1b. The attacker in a war get a 25% bonus to their attack rolls on the first turn of dice rolling. This bonus is lost if the two nations were previously in a war within the last 5 turns.
2. Defender may either accept attacker's terms or go to war.
3a. Attackers then declare an adjacent territory for each action being spent on conquest, and roll any amount of dice, up to the amount of territories of their nation. The total is then multiplied by resource modifiers (if any). Should an attacker be in a war with multiple nations, it must divide their attack/defense dice as well as resources between each war front.
3b. Any player wishing to provide allied support for the attacker must roll their own dice for the attack, up to a maximum of 1/10th the amount of territories of their nation (rounded UP). Should the ally be in a war with multiple nations/providing aid to multiple nations, it must divide their attack/defense dice as well.
3c. Defender then declares a territory for each attack he is defending against, then rolls any amount of dice, up to the amount of territories of their nation. The total is then multiplied by resource modifiers (if any).
3d. Any player wishing to provide allied support for the defended must roll their own dice for the defense, up to a maximum of 1/10th the amount of territories of their nation (rounded UP). Should the ally be in a war with multiple nations/providing aid to multiple nations, it must divide their attack/defense dice as well.
3e. Territories gained through war cannot be added to your total until the war is over.
4. If attacker wins, he gains attacked territory. If defender wins, he gains one of his territories back, or, if he still owns them all, gains one of the attacker's territories. The first turn of the war, an attacker may not lose territories for failed war attempts, due to the need to establish the fighting line on part of the defender.
5. War ends when the two nations come to a formal agreement, one nation gains all of the other nation's land, or when either party gives in to terms set by the other.

Resources:

There will be scattered throughout the map clusters of resources in adjacent territories. Each resource of a type is capable of providing a +.1x multiplier (10% bonus) to a single war front. These may be traded to adjacent nations passively by agreement between two nations for whatever terms agreed between them, often for resources, but for other services or territory as well. Trade is considered to be ongoing unless a limit of turns is set in place by the trade agreement, and requires only a single one of the agreeing nations to state intention to end the trade, and that very turn, the resources traded are considered unavailable to the other players as per their agreements. Note: In the event of a series of trades requiring a continued chain of trade between multiple players (such as trading a resource received from another player), it is possible to break the chain of trade between all players by cutting off the resource from the original source.

Additional Actions:
Embargo/Blockade: A nation may interdict a trade between two other parties with an expenditure of actions. For each action used, you may deny a player access to a single resource received through trade (this will also deny the third party with whatever they were receiving in return for that resource, likely another resource). This action may only be used when it geographically makes sense (has to be believable)

Trade Land: Swap territories with one other nation. If the difference in the trade is greater than 1, one extra action must be spent by both sides for each additional territory. So if Player A is trading 4 territories and Player B is trading 3, it costs one action. But if Player A is trading 5 territories, both players spend two actions. If Player A is trading 6 territories, both players spend three actions. Player A may not trade 8 territories, as that would cost 5 actions. At the end of a war, land may be traded between both combatants at no cost, according to the agreements of each party.

Colonization: Colonization is a simple six-sided dice roll of 4 or better to gain a new adjacent territory. Overseas expansion must make geographic sense, and only succeeds on a 5 or better.
Expansion: Costs 3 Actions: Gain one territory of your choosing. This option cannot be used for overseas expansion.

Full Defense: Costs 4 actions: A nation spends all of its efforts in defense, gaining a 50% bonus on all rolls to defend its territory. However, players in full defense cannot take an attackers territory if victorious.

Full Offense: Costs 2 actions: A nation spends all of its efforts in a focused offense, gaining a 25% bonus on all attack rolls on a single front. However, players in full offense obviously restrict the number of territories they can take to 2. This in effect is emphasizing effectiveness of attack vs. quantity.

Taxes/Tithes: in which a player collects 1 gold from every territory they own, +3 more. This passive resource gives no bonus, but may be traded to denote a "debt" to another player for resources or other terms, such as military aid for a number of turns and so on.

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kobo1d

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Good idea or bad idea? Idea stolen from CIV, and I need help balancing them: National Traits, one chosen at beginning during nation creation, to give a mechanical variety to our nations:

Seafaring: Seafaring nations can expand overseas on a 4+ rather than a 5+.

Defensive: Defensive nations only spend three actions, rather than four, to gain the benefit of the full defense option.

Militaristic: Militaristic nations gain a 50% bonus, rather than a 25% bonus, when using a full offense option.

Commercial: Commercial nations may trade away all copies of a resource they control and still receive its benefit.

Resourceful: Resourceful nations gain a 15% bonus from a resource, rather than 10%.

Mobile: Mobile nations may provide alliance support up to a maximum of 1/5th the amount of territories of their nation (rounded UP), rather than 1/10th.

Suggest more traits, balance these, condemn idea as overly complex, etc.

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kobo1d wrote:Good idea or bad idea? Idea stolen from CIV, and I need help balancing them: National Traits, one chosen at beginning during nation creation, to give a mechanical variety to our nations:

Seafaring: Seafaring nations can expand overseas on a 4+ rather than a 5+.

Defensive: Defensive nations only spend three actions, rather than four, to gain the benefit of the full defense option.

Militaristic: Militaristic nations gain a 50% bonus, rather than a 25% bonus, when using a full offense option.

Commercial: Commercial nations may trade away all copies of a resource they control and still receive its benefit.

Resourceful: Resourceful nations gain a 15% bonus from a resource, rather than 10%.

Mobile: Mobile nations may provide alliance support up to a maximum of 1/5th the amount of territories of their nation (rounded UP), rather than 1/10th.

Suggest more traits, balance these, condemn idea as overly complex, etc.

I am fully in support of the rules you have outlined above. Just waiting for China's mathamancy to find broken parts.

As for traits, I feel like Seafaring is limited in usefulness unless we use a big map with a lot of water, and Commercial might lead to problems down the road when one nation controls half the resources in the world and trades them all away without losing the war bonus. But I do like the trait idea, and I think it will provide a way to make nations different.

And here are some ideas:

Paranoid: Gain extra defense dice, equal to your ally dice.

Steamrolling: Gain extra offense dice, equal to your ally dice.

Greedy: Gain three extra gold when taxing your colonies.

Expansionist: Colonize on a 3+ instead of a 4+.

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I think the national trait system is an interesting idea. That being said , after the experience of ng3 I think it may be a good idea to try the new version of the rules and see how they work before adding a traits system.

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Premier Cherdenko wrote:I am fully in support of the rules you have outlined above. Just waiting for China's mathamancy to find broken parts.
The only one is that Resources provide a multiplier benefit, thus becoming MORE powerful in the hands of larger nations. If they just provided a flat bonus to total army dice (effectively acting as an extra territory or two) it'd be better for the little nations, and worse for the big nations.
It's not really a problem though as it caps out when a nation has all the resources, and larger nations are quite likely to have all of them, so it's only an issue in the early-mid game, or if lots of little territories are in an alliance.

As one of my traits, I'd like to have one of the following (if possible):

Pacifist: Rolls a 3+ to colonise territories, but takes a -20% penalty to army rolls.
Edit: Cherdenko suggested something similar, but without the penalty. Imo 33% faster expansion should have some negative attached, otherwise it becomes the #1 trait to have in peace-time. Wink

Hyperactive: Gains 1 military action, but loses 20% army power

Tactical Genius: Armies this nation uses gain +20% power for every ally assisting them.

Stoic: Loses the 25% bonus for initial attack, but instead gains a 10% attack bonus for each turn a war has been ongoing, after the first.

If those aren't possible, then I'll take Resourceful.



Also suggesting the following:

Aggressive: Gains 1 military action, but colonises on 5+.



Last edited by Chinese R-3 on Sun May 09, 2010 11:33 pm; edited 4 times in total

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kobo1d wrote:Suggest more traits, balance these, condemn idea as overly complex, etc.
First thing to do is resolve the order in which stuff happens. Does colonising a land grant you a bonus to your number of armies in that turn?
I'm thinking "probably not", but might as well clarify.

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kobo1d

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minotaur is wise. Let's hold off on the shiny bits and unnecessary add-ons until we have an elegant and effective framework. Lets shelve the traits for now (as neat as they are). If NG4 is a success, it can be something to add to NG5.

Changing the resources to a flat bonus, good point China.

First thing to do is resolve the order in which stuff happens. Does colonising a land grant you a bonus to your number of armies in that turn?
I'm thinking "probably not", but might as well clarify.

As you take all your actions at once (including dice rolls), everything happens simultaneously, and you would not gain the bonuses for new territories until the next turn. I'll write it in.

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Cool. Well, then let's get everything written up and get into the game.

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